01 Personal Background
Lexloong: Could you briefly introduce yourself ?
Keynes: I graduated with a bachelor's degree from Hangzhou Normal University in 2016. Since starting my career, I have been working in the cross-border e-commerce industry, including handling cross-border legal matters in the internet sector. I now have eight and a half years of professional experience. Between 2018 and 2019, I was stationed in the Middle East, working in Saudi Arabia and the UAE as a Legal Business Partner (BP) to support local operations. Currently, I work for a publicly listed company in the mobile and internet sector, primarily focusing on legal matters related to online media and digital marketing.
02 Language and Skill Development
Lexloong: When it comes to cross-border matters, people often associate them with English proficiency. Apart from IELTS and TOEFL, do you think it’s necessary to specifically study legal English?
Keynes: I think it depends on your work environment. If your role involves, for example, reviewing bilingual contracts in Chinese and English, then I don’t think it’s necessary to undertake additional studies. However, if your work is entirely domestic in nature, I think some extra learning is necessary. That said, studying doesn’t mean you must enroll in a course. It’s more about applying your skills in practice. You can go online and Google some contract templates—just download them and practice. As for whether to pursue an LLM abroad, it really depends on the individual, as the knowledge taught in LLM programs is more theoretical and might not necessarily empower you in your day-to-day work. In terms of spoken English, I think practicing daily is more effective. Platforms like Xiaohongshu have live-streamed English chatrooms where you can practice. I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary to sign up for a class.
Lexloong: Besides Googling bilingual contract templates, do you have other recommended learning methods?
Keynes: One method I use frequently is searching for contract templates online, as I mentioned earlier, and practicing with them. Another approach is to look for the legal databases of various countries and conduct your own research. Read through their laws to understand three key aspects: (1) What is the specific content and how is it regulated? (2) What is the writing structure of the document? (3) What vocabulary is unique to legal English and only used in such contexts? By repeatedly reading and analyzing these, you can gradually improve your understanding of legal English.
Lexloong: During your time in the Middle East, did you specifically study the languages spoken there?
Keynes: No, I didn’t. We had colleagues who could speak Arabic, but in the Middle East, Arabic often comes with many dialects. Many people who pass Arabic proficiency exams in China find that they can’t communicate with locals in anything other than English because the dialects are so strong. Ultimately, most people revert to using English.
Lexloong: So, in non-English-speaking regions like the Middle East, knowing English is sufficient for work without much impact?
Keynes: Yes, in the Middle East, it doesn’t have much of an impact. I can’t say this applies to every region though. For instance, in countries with a history of French colonization, like Côte d’Ivoire, English might not be as effective.
Lexloong: Do you think learning another language, such as French or Spanish, would significantly help in cross-border legal work?
Keynes: It depends on individual circumstances. If your English is already very strong, then learning French or Spanish is beneficial—it’s a case of "the more, the better." However, it’s more of a marginal improvement, akin to going from a score of 60 to 65. If you don’t have a solid foundation in English and jump straight into learning French or another language, you might not even reach that baseline level of competency. So, I think additional languages are helpful only if your foundation in English is already solid. Otherwise, I wouldn’t recommend it.
Lexloong: Beyond language skills, particularly English proficiency, what professional skills do you think are required for cross-border legal work compared to traditional legal roles?
Keynes: The first thing is to break away from the legal thinking cultivated in China. For example, the Middle East is a region with a strong religious influence, and many of their legal principles are derived from the Quran. This is vastly different from China, which is a civil law country based on codified laws. Applying Chinese legal reasoning to local laws is often inappropriate. This is a common challenge for those transitioning from purely domestic roles to cross-border work. Legal systems differ—there’s Islamic law, civil law, common law, and others. The underlying logic for decision-making varies greatly depending on the legal system. For instance, let’s take something like lotteries or loan interest. In China, there are clear rules about whether lotteries are permitted and whether filing is required. In the Middle East, however, the Quran might label such activities as evil, but there’s no codified law explicitly prohibiting them. These differences in understanding highlight the need to move beyond the legal framework we’ve been taught in China when dealing with cross-border matters.
Lexloong: You mentioned differences in the way legal systems approach issues. For someone without cross-border experience, what would you say is the key to breaking into this field? Does pursuing a degree abroad, such as studying common law in the UK or US, make a significant difference?
Keynes: From the perspective of securing a cross-border legal role, studying abroad does help. In today’s job market, having overseas educational experience is increasingly becoming a standard requirement, particularly in recent years. During your studies, you’re essentially training yourself to think within a different legal framework. Whether it’s writing essays or conducting legal research, you’re constantly reflecting on your own logic. However, having a study-abroad experience alone is not enough. The most effective way to develop this mindset is through practical experience. Practical experience means finding opportunities to intern and work on real cases. Only by handling real-world issues in actual scenarios can you receive direct feedback, face challenges from clients or business teams, and understand why certain approaches won’t work. This kind of hands-on feedback is far more valuable than what you get from studying abroad.
03 Cross-border Legal Work
Lexloong: Could you briefly describe your main responsibilities in your current role?
Keynes: Our work can be categorized into several main areas. First, the most basic task is reviewing and drafting bilingual contracts in Chinese and English. Second, we provide routine legal consulting services, answering daily inquiries from business teams and offering suggestions for improving product features. Third, we perform legal and regulatory research for different countries. For example, we look into e-commerce laws or export control regulations for products like e-cigarettes to determine whether they can be sold in certain markets. Fourth, we manage external legal counsel. Lastly, we handle the establishment of local business entities and project-specific tasks, such as data compliance, content compliance, export control, and economic sanctions.
Lexloong: You mentioned providing legal consulting services. Who are the main recipients of these services?
Keynes: Our primary clients are our internal business teams. For example, in cross-border e-commerce, our products may include features that require user data authorization. We need to assess whether these features pose any risks of over-marketing or whether certain promotional activities, such as lotteries, might face restrictions. Each case requires a tailored legal analysis.
Lexloong: Over the years, we’ve noticed that the companies you’ve worked for share similar business directions. Could you share your insights on why you chose this path? What drove your decision to focus on this area?
Keynes: Back when I started in e-commerce around 2016 or 2017, the domestic market in China was already showing signs of saturation. Giants like Alibaba were extremely dominant, and a few years later, platforms like Pinduoduo and JD.com entered the scene, intensifying competition. The fierce competition in the domestic market made it inevitable for companies to look for growth opportunities overseas. Early on, I realized that the overseas market would become a key focus for expansion, especially in a competitive environment like China. That’s why I believed it had strong potential.The second reason is somewhat circumstantial. At the time, my company happened to have an overseas assignment opportunity. I personally enjoy exploring different countries and gaining international experience, so I seized the chance and continued along this career path.
Lexloong: At the beginning of the interview, you briefly introduced your current role in the cross-border e-commerce industry. Could you elaborate on which aspects of your work are the most challenging?
Keynes: Beyond the basics I mentioned earlier, the most challenging part of our work lies in dealing with gray areas or issues where compliance costs are difficult to justify. These situations inevitably involve certain legal risks.For instance, one unavoidable issue in the cross-border e-commerce industry is using user data for training algorithms to provide personalized recommendations. Personalized recommendations rely on user data such as age, gender, purchase history, and browsing behavior to create user profiles and suggest relevant products. However, this raises legal questions about data compliance, such as cross-border data transfers (e.g., transferring EU user data to a data center in Singapore for training) and whether proper user consent was obtained. Strictly adhering to data compliance regulations, like the EU’s GDPR, might make it nearly impossible to implement personalized recommendations effectively, or it could result in poor recommendation accuracy. Compliance often requires significant financial investment, such as setting up dedicated servers, which may not be feasible for smaller companies.Another example is website analytics. Many independent websites rely on data dashboards to track user behavior, such as page views and clicks, to identify issues and optimize their platforms. However, under data protection laws, businesses are required to obtain user consent before collecting such data. If users refuse, their data won’t appear on the dashboard, which could lead to inaccuracies (e.g., actual traffic is 5,000 visits, but the dashboard only shows 3,000). This kind of data distortion can result in misguided business decisions.In cross-border legal work, the most significant challenge is addressing these structural issues. These aren’t ordinary legal problems—they’re structural ones where compliance measures can directly impact the company’s business operations. In extreme cases, non-compliance could threaten the viability of the entire business.
Lexloong: Do you still rely on external legal counsel to ensure a comprehensive understanding of local laws?
Keynes: Yes, we do. Regardless of the country, there’s always a need for external legal counsel, especially in the early stages. This isn’t necessarily because we lack a thorough understanding of the regulations, but because we aren’t fully familiar with local practices or how government authorities enforce these regulations. Since we don’t live there, hiring local lawyers is essential.
Lexloong: In some cases, do companies bypass in-house cross-border legal teams and go straight to hiring external lawyers? What’s the difference between these two approaches?
Keynes: Yes, it happens. This ties into the perceived value of the role. Some companies believe that if their business is entirely cross-border and their contracts are in English, they might as well just hire local lawyers.However, there are several issues with this approach. First, lawyers primarily focus on providing compliance advice based on local laws rather than offering actionable solutions. Particularly with foreign lawyers, they tend to be more rigid in their recommendations and less likely to consider a company’s specific business needs. Their advice often stops at stating what’s legally compliant, which isn’t always what the company needs. Companies often look for ways to balance compliance with business objectives, and this requires a deeper understanding of the company’s products, financial workflows, and logistics. Lawyers generally don’t have this level of insight.Second, there’s a trust issue. Many companies initially rely on external lawyers but later decide to hire in-house legal teams. This is because the relationship with external lawyers is purely transactional, and there’s no deep contractual bond. In some cases, companies have been burned by local lawyers who disclosed sensitive information to regulators or competitors. In contrast, in-house legal teams are more aligned with the company’s goals, have a deeper understanding of its operations, and are better positioned to offer practical solutions.
Lexloong: You mentioned the importance of building trust with business teams. How do you approach communication with other departments within the company?
Keynes: Building trust is critical. By nature, legal teams often have an adversarial relationship with business departments. The key is to make the business teams feel that the legal team is on their side. In terms of communication, I recommend avoiding outright rejection of business proposals. For example, instead of saying, “This is not allowed; it’s illegal,” try saying, “Let me think about how we can make this work.” The feedback you get will be completely different. In the first case, the business team might stop consulting the legal team altogether. In the second case, they’ll start trusting you, knowing that even if something isn’t feasible, you’re actively looking for solutions. This trust makes it much easier to establish regular communication mechanisms, such as attending business team meetings or setting up fixed reporting schedules. On the other hand, if the relationship starts off as adversarial, it’ll be much harder to rebuild that trust later.
04 Career Advice for Aspiring Cross-border Lawyers
Lexloong: Can you share advice for young legal professionals who want to break into cross-border legal work?
Keynes: First, I would say that cross-border legal work requires a strong foundation in language skills, particularly English. It’s not just about being fluent or passing a language test—it’s about being able to read, draft, and analyze legal documents in English. This is a non-negotiable skill. If your English ability is insufficient, I would suggest focusing on improving it first.
Second, you need to have a deep understanding of your own legal system before venturing into a different jurisdiction. For example, if you’re trained in Chinese law, make sure you understand the framework, logic, and nuances of Chinese legal principles. Once you have this foundation, you can start learning about other legal systems, such as common law, civil law, or Islamic law. This comparative understanding will help you adapt when dealing with international matters.
Finally, you need to develop a business mindset. Cross-border legal work isn’t limited to just reviewing contracts or researching regulations. It often requires you to work closely with business teams and balance legal compliance with business objectives. This means you need to understand the company’s products, market strategies, and operational workflows. The more aligned you are with the company’s business goals, the more valuable you’ll be as a cross-border legal professional.
Lexloong: For young professionals who lack international experience, how can they get started in this field?
Keynes: If you don’t have international experience yet, I recommend starting by working for a company with international operations. These companies often have opportunities to handle cross-border issues, even if your initial role is focused on domestic matters. Once you’ve proven yourself, you can request to be transferred to a team or project with cross-border responsibilities.
Alternatively, you can seek internships or entry-level roles at multinational companies or law firms that specialize in international transactions. These roles often expose you to foreign clients, jurisdictions, and legal systems, which can help you gradually build your expertise.
Lastly, don’t underestimate the value of self-education. Leverage online resources, such as legal templates, international case studies, and legal database platforms, to familiarize yourself with cross-border legal concepts. You can also participate in online forums or attend webinars to learn from experienced professionals in the field.
Lexloong: Are there any certifications, degrees, or training programs you would recommend for aspiring cross-border legal professionals?
Keynes: Certifications like the International Certificate in Financial Services Law or those offered by organizations such as the International Bar Association (IBA) can be helpful if you’re looking to specialize in specific areas like finance or arbitration.
As for degrees, pursuing an LLM in a foreign jurisdiction can be valuable, especially if you want to gain exposure to common law or civil law systems. However, as I mentioned earlier, an LLM is more theoretical and might not directly improve your practical skills. If you decide to pursue one, make sure to choose a program that aligns with your career goals, whether that’s corporate law, arbitration, or intellectual property.
In terms of training, I highly recommend any program that focuses on legal writing, negotiation, and cross-cultural communication. These are essential skills for cross-border legal work, as you’ll often be dealing with diverse clients, stakeholders, and jurisdictions.
05 Industry Trends and Future Outlook
Lexloong: How do you see the field of cross-border legal work evolving in the future?
Keynes: I believe the demand for cross-border legal professionals will continue to grow as more companies expand their operations internationally. However, the nature of the work is also changing. For example, issues related to data compliance, cybersecurity, and ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) are becoming increasingly important. These areas require specialized knowledge and a multidisciplinary approach, meaning legal professionals need to collaborate with experts in technology, finance, and sustainability.
At the same time, the rise of AI and legal tech is transforming the way legal work is conducted. Tasks like contract review, legal research, and even dispute resolution are becoming more automated, which means lawyers need to focus on higher-value work, such as strategic decision-making and client relationship management.
Overall, the field is becoming more dynamic and interdisciplinary. For aspiring cross-border legal professionals, this means you’ll need to continuously update your skills and adapt to new challenges.
Lexloong: What advice would you give to companies looking to build their cross-border legal teams?
Keynes: First, I would advise companies to hire legal professionals who are not only knowledgeable about international laws but also have a strong understanding of the company’s industry and business model. Cross-border legal work often requires balancing legal compliance with business objectives, so it’s crucial to have team members who can navigate this delicate balance.
Second, invest in training and development. Cross-border legal work involves constant learning, whether it’s staying updated on regulatory changes or understanding new markets. Providing your legal team with access to resources, training programs, and networking opportunities can significantly enhance their effectiveness.
Lastly, foster collaboration between your legal and business teams. In many companies, there’s a divide between these two functions, which can lead to inefficiencies and misunderstandings. By creating a culture of mutual respect and collaboration, you can ensure that your cross-border legal team is seen as a strategic partner rather than a roadblock.
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